I don't like gravel traps

"Icemanmaybeirunoutofthetalents" (Ice-man) 10/24/2013 at 17:14 • Filed to: F1, safety

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Also, !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!!

EL_ULY > Icemanmaybeirunoutofthetalents 10/24/2013 at 17:19

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good thing it didn't hook in and start flipping

04sneaky - Boxers. Blowers. Bikes. And bitches. > Icemanmaybeirunoutofthetalents 10/24/2013 at 17:19

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Like the website says, I've always felt sand and gravel are too loose and allow the cars to dig in causing the car to flip and go even more out of control.

Even just the bouncing like Coulthard did would be scary to me as a driver.

ttyymmnn > Icemanmaybeirunoutofthetalents 10/24/2013 at 17:41

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Obviously, the theory is that the cars will bog down in the gravel and slow down. I think practice has shown that gravel traps cause cars to flip on skid across the loose surface. When you've got cars with such ridiculously grippy tires, why not pave the runoffs? Nobody wants to see cars mired in the kitty litter; they'd rather see them racing on the track.

getchapopcorn > ttyymmnn 10/24/2013 at 18:05

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The point is that leaving the track is a penalty, one that can come with the cost of being beached and out of the race/other session. I think they're fantastic and exactly what's called for in F1: brute, technical perfection or possibility of steep penalty.

I honestly can't remember where the gravel pits have caused a safety problem as opposed to otherwise aiding safety.

Anima > getchapopcorn 10/24/2013 at 19:11

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I have just made a case for this in an article on the FP.

Yes, gravel traps are not ideal and there is a little danger involved, which IMO is accounted for in the car design. I don't want to see anybody hurt (or worse) but you can't tell me that if Kubica can walk away from this crash in Canada, 6 years ago. with just minor injuries, that F1 hasn't improved in safety enough to balance some things out again. I just don't think the 'get out of jail free card' that Tilke and the FIA give drivers nowadays is the answer.

Icemanmaybeirunoutofthetalents > Anima 10/24/2013 at 22:16

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It not having happened cannot be cited as a proof that it will not happen or that it will not cause as much or more damage than has happened until now. That is a surefire way to get someone killed. Gravel traps can cause cars to flip which can send cars flying into barriers. Crash tests are rigorous these days and hence cars are safer. But nobody would like to test that by having a car impacting the barrier at speed. Problem with the gravel traps have also been that the low ride height of f1 cars makes them skip across the entire gravel trap and hit the tyres or barriers at a higher speed than if the driver were able to still maintain control of the vehicle in the runoff area. This is why, after schumacher broke his leg in 1999, the gravel trap was replaced with tarmac runoff. Such a thing can happen at degner too, like what happened with Bianchi, except much worse. "Acres of runoff" might look odd for tv viewers but all these came about because drivers were concerned about safety in the late 90s and hence newer circuits had to be designed with them in mind. It didn't just drop into Tilke's mind either. Same with the hairpins and straights. He was asked to do that because cars couldn't follow other cars through sweeping turns and hence couldn't possibly overtake when they led to straights. As always f1 addressed the symptoms instead of the underlying problem, namely, aero.

Icemanmaybeirunoutofthetalents > getchapopcorn 10/24/2013 at 22:18

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There have been tons of instances of cars skipping across the gravel with the driver a mere passenger with no control over direction or speed. Schumacher's crash in 99 was the reason that gravel trap was replaced.

Also, unlike earlier race organisers cannot have cars retire because of one mistake. Its ultimately financial. Yes, many don't like it but that is the way of things.

Icemanmaybeirunoutofthetalents > 04sneaky - Boxers. Blowers. Bikes. And bitches. 10/24/2013 at 22:18

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He was lucky his tyres didn't dig in and flip him sideways.

Icemanmaybeirunoutofthetalents > EL_ULY 10/24/2013 at 22:19

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Totally.

getchapopcorn > Icemanmaybeirunoutofthetalents 10/24/2013 at 22:24

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I have zero problems with drivers breaking their legs, that's not a 'safety' problem; to the extent one might want to make it one, it is with the car not the trap. Money is bullshit excuse to say it shouldn't always be in the back of drivers' mind that "crap, if I get stick then I'm out of the race."